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Votes vs. contest project quality
Votes vs. contest project quality
3/18/09 10:50 PM
I looked around the projects among the Great 8. The BUMS project, which got most popular votes, caught my eyeballs. It is a good project according to the description in the project page. It uses a lot devices and sensors externally (although I prefer to focus on the PIC32 itself and use the on-chip peripherals to the maximum extend). The author has very good mechanical skill and is able to built high quality lighting and motor controlled valve system. However, when I watched the video clips I felt disappoint. Honestly, I am sorry to say its video is worst among the 8 projects. The entire video (on both videos) is a slideshow of static, nonfunctional disjointed sensors, circuit boards, cables, lights and even the faucet pictures under the music. The only functions it shows are the LED light color changes and the motor rotation without any association to the PIC32 control. I am not sure, by watching the video clips, if the sensors and actuators are actually working as it described in the project page and the forum. If so, why doesn’t the video clip show the actual process: how the RFID fob triggers the system, how the IR motion sensor turns on the light when a person walks into the bathroom, how the motor control turns the water on or off under the system control and how the system logs the information? Those video clips are not difficult to make. The second video starts with a nice movie clip. Yes, I am convinced the bathroom and water saving is important. However, this is the microcontroller design contest and what I want to see is the WORKING DEVICE. The remaining of the video shows again the light fixture pictures and the disjointed sensor pictures. It does show the function web page on a PC screen. However, I did not see any webpage function associated with to the PIC32 microcontroller process besides manipulating the text box and slider in the web browser. Microchip TCP/IP server stack already supports web server and to put a static HTML page to a PC web browser is not a difficult task. The video should show how the linked system, from the web server to the browser and back to server to set the BUMS parameters correspondently upon the user changes the value, or control the system.<br>
I am sorry to say the voting count does not seem to reflect the real quality of the project building (at least from the video presentation). I will like to see the projects, besides on turn or off the LEDs and external devices, those tasks an 8-bit controller can easily achieves, really shine the PIC32 advanced and unique features.
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/19/09 6:08 AM as a reply to Inspector .
Problems with the voting system have been discussed in many previous threads:

http://www.mypic32.com/web/guest/forums/message_boards/message/108924
http://www.mypic32.com/web/guest/forums/message_boards/message/105200
http://www.mypic32.com/web/guest/forums/message_boards/message/138858

Hopefully the judges will help balance the projects ratings...
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/19/09 2:56 PM as a reply to Inspector .
Thanks for singleing my project out of all of these to discuss..... you should check out my Youtube Videos My Videos, and start from Update #1.... you might find some answers, for your questions..... (Do you really think if my video's and code does not show these items functioning, do you think the judges would have let me get this far???) this is a year long challenge, you are looking at the last few weeks, those videos are basically "advertisement" for my project that are posted on youtube, facebook, digg, and many other forums..... But thanks for the compliments and comments.

P.S.
The valve System is self controlled (You would have known that if you had actually read all my threads) they run off of Pic16F84's, the Pic32 just supplies a step and dir bit to it, no control whatsoever, so if you want to see 2 wires and a ground connected to the pic32, I'll make a video just for you. So go through my blogs, my forum threads, my personal website, and my videos on you tube so you can get the whole scope of my project.

I also asked people for comments and suggestions through out the challenge on what they would like to see, etc. And I thought I had adequately responded to all who did. So as to not wanting to dissapoint anyone, I will compose another video showing all of these modules working as a whole with the pic32 and hopefully you wont be dissapointed. I will post a link in this thread to it so it will be easy to access....



Here are links to each Video from Phase II on up.... makes it easier to find them with all my videos....

#1 - Video 1
#2 - Video 2
#3 - Video 3
#4 - Video 4
#5 - Video 5
#6 - Video 6
#7 - seems to be missing, i will have to upload it again....
#8 - Video 8

There are some other ones on my youtube channel that shows some of the assembly of parts and testing....

B. Morse
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/19/09 9:47 PM as a reply to bmorse .
I am not trying to single out one project from the Great 8s. I believe that all the projects in the finalist picked up from hundreds of participants should be firm enough to stand for the public reviewing and commenting. Because the BUMS project is the most popular voted project I did pay my attention to it. As I said, the BUMS project is a good project as described in the plan. However, when I saw the presentation videos I was disappoint because I did not see an integrated final working system. I did not know I have to look around for the sources other than the materials posted at myPIC32.com in order to judge the project (I cannot find it written in anywhere in the contest rule), but I did watch the 7 YouTube video clips as the BUMS author suggested, anyway. Here is the summary of the video clips:
video1: touch sensor.
video2: power supply, touch panel, PIR sensor.
video3: humidity sensor, machining metal case.
video4: machining touch panel, led light.
video5: same as the first video on MyPIC32.com (a slideshow of parts and components).
vdieo6: each individual module test showed on vacuum fluorescent display.
video8: same as the second video on myPic32.com (the movie clip and the webpage show).
I am not trying to play down the BUMS author’s ability of making the good circuits and machining the beautiful cases and panels. However, even from those YouTube video clips I could not find out what is the working system. I don’t think to machine a beautiful Plexiglas panel, or to hock up a peripheral module to the vacuum fluorescent display is the project’s final goal. Those individual module tests were ok in the early project building process. However, the final stage (I believe this is the final stage) the people want to see an integrated working system. To connect a peripheral module to a microcontroller is not a difficult task (at least it is not a difficult task for the contestants in the finalist). It can be easily handled by an 8-bit microcontroller and definitely does not post a difficulty to the PIC32. Showing the disjointed sensor modules and LEDs should not happen in the final stage among the finalist. On the analogy, no matter how the wonderful a pianist can make an individual sound from a piano by touch one single key audients won’t appreciate it if he cannot play a music using all the piano keys synchronously.
The tricky thing for the integrated system is how to make all the peripherals work correspondently and synchronously. This involves a lot of timing, use cases and system states issues. For example, in the BUMS system, when the humidity sensor reports high humidity, what the system should do? The system shows it on the display, is that all? I think the PIC32 should determine if the user is still in the bathroom (by the PIR module) and if the faucet valve is turned on, etc, and handle it correspondently. That is what I want to see in the final stage. I really don’t want to see “advertisement” video, as the BUMS author declared, instead of the video showing the technical aspects of the project in the final stage. The “advertisement” might generate more votes but that is not the objective of the design contest.
I am not sure how the voters judged the projects. I think most of us were learned from the video presentations, and software and hardware diagrams posted on myPIC32.com. It puzzles me why some of the projects deserve so high voting rate.
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/21/09 1:22 AM as a reply to Inspector .
Hi,

I am not sure if you heard this saying:
" All of us do not have equal talent, but all of us should have equal opportunity to develop our talents" by Mr. APJ Abdul Kalam

I hope that if this appeases your view.

Warm Regards,
Boseji
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/21/09 4:56 AM as a reply to bmorse .
Hey Brent,
It would be cool if you made a video with an 'actual teenager' using too much hot water, then BUMS yells at them, and switches the shower to 'cold mode'.

Perhaps have one of your kids wear a "head cam" while they do their morning routine.

Pete
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/21/09 5:55 AM as a reply to saipan59 .
I was thinking along simiar lines.... even filing from outside the door when the shower times out etc.

Have Fun at ESC... guess I wont see you there.

Mike
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/21/09 11:20 PM as a reply to saipan59 .
Yes, an actual user taking a shower will be a killer. What about Pamela Anderson ?

If you do that I'll not only vote for you, I'll get one of Boseji's LATHI units after my heart attack.

To the inspector: Did you land on planet earth few days ago ?

Cheers
Jorge
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/22/09 1:15 AM as a reply to saipan59 .
Thanks, Pete, Mike and Jorge, a video with Pamela Anderson taking a shower would be cool and all, but unfortunately, I do not have the system actually installed yet, I did not want to install the prototype and have to remove it later, since it will take some re wiring and some plumbing to get it done( I still have not gotten permission to cut a hole in the office wall to be able to access the shower plumbing in the kids bathroom, who designs showers anyway??? How come there is never a way to access the shower plumbing without having to tear things up?? I guess an IPOD was not enough, we are also currently putting in a bathroom downsatirs for the 2 older kids, which will require a BUM System also), I was having a finished PCB done for my project but it is not here yet.... so I doubt I will have time to install the whole thing and make a video nonetheless. I really wanted to have my PCB done before ESC, (if I am going.) but no luck.... so IF I do go, I will just take the prototype with me and most of the modules, I will just build it into a case I can carry with me, jus to show functionality of the system, and let people "play" with it.....

I was really looking forward to meeting you at ESC Mike, but as I told jorge, If I do go, I will take plenty of pictures to share.... I am putting together another video of the system, to clarify a few things, especially for Mr. Inspector, who kind of showed up late in the challenge, but has made a few good points about my videos. I wish he would have showed up sooner when I was asking for input..... late is better than never I guess...

B. Morse
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/22/09 2:29 AM as a reply to bmorse .
Did anyone notice that notetaker for blinds just received 100+ votes overnight? Very suspicious...
I guess he is following the example of some other contestants...
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/22/09 2:36 AM as a reply to Anonymous.
80 of the votes happened in the time I had dinner last night.
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/22/09 10:45 PM as a reply to Inspector .
Here you go Mr. Inspector, or for whomever else wants to see them anyway.... I have put together, well one video, but I had to split it up into 3 parts... I didnt go into a lot of small detail, but I think this will give you a better perspective on what the system does as a whole, and not just some disjointed sensors and still photos......

BUMS Overview Part1

BUMS Overview Part 2

BUMS Overview Part 3


Cheers!!

B. Morse
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/23/09 12:06 AM as a reply to bmorse .
Nice tattoos... and good job on the detail in the video.

I am trying to put together a Final Video to replace Episode IV..... More of an Educational / Advertising video... may or may not get it done before lock down.

Mike
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/24/09 6:06 AM as a reply to Anonymous.
Anonymous:
Did anyone notice that notetaker for blinds just received 100+ votes overnight? Very suspicious...
I guess he is following the example of some other contestants...



notetaker cheating?

I'm not sure I need to answer for this. I think the organizer have the answer. But I would like to share some of my thoughts.

Fair voting is my top concern. I always keep in mine that I need to play fair in any circumstances. A couple of my friends seeing my vote too low said they could create hundred of emails and use that to vote for me. I said to my friends that I will not happy at all winning in that way. we should not do that. it's no fair,

I have a little practice in public relation. I’m afraid of living in a high level compete environment, and I don’t want to put too much effort to win or to take place of others..

It was hard for me to find one vote. At work, I needed to get out of my “shell office” and talked to people. I brought my prototype board to my colleague offices and did show and tell about the project, then I asked them for vote.

Guess what? After a few tours, I realized that community voting policy is not only for introducing PIC32.. I realized I got some improvement in presenting projects and ideas, and I had chances practicing English as it’s my second language.

Below here I would like to share the way I got votes. I actually started working on votes last week . You may find some answer for the “Very suspicious…”

1. Directed contact show and tell at work. My company have more than 3,000 employees but I only did that in my department and closed friends.

2. I got votes from all relatives in the US and in Vietnam.

2. Posted my design Vietnamese technical forums. I had to wrote description and voting guide in Vietnamese. This way is not very effective since my voice was too soft. Many of them got sweaty reading English. I recently made an detail instruction in Vietnamese to vote on mypic32.com

3. My high school physic teacher support me with all her heart. She printed hundred of flies and gave to anyone she knows. She asked them and their families to vote.

4. One of my colleague at work broadcast my email to several universities in Vietnam.

5. Asked helped from my closest friend in Vietnam. He owns a manufacture making auto-fiberglass product export to Japan. After he got my email a few days ago, he let five of his office employees brought papers to local universities in Ho Chi Minh City (Saigon) and introduced directly to students about the contest and the projects. Then they went to several internet service/chat rooms and talked to people sitting there, and asked to vote. My friend said people there were happy to vote for me since the project carried some social aspect, help blinds

Talked to me three days ago he said finding several thousand votes was not a problems. During that time he noted that his father was in the hospital. Yesterday I sadly learned that his father has passed away. We paused voting.

Really sad ; ;
txnghia
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/24/09 4:40 PM as a reply to txnghia .
Mr txnghia, I never called you a cheater. Is it suspicious to me that someone got 200+ votes just 2 days before the voting freeze? Yes, but that's just me.

Too bad this contest is about getting votes and not about merit.

Is it fair? No. That's ok, life is not fair.

Anyway, that doesn't matter anymore, have fun at ESC.
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/24/09 9:53 PM as a reply to bmorse .
Those video clips are much better than those posted on your contest page. You need to replace the "advertiisement" video clips by the later video clips at YouTube, which are much technical orientated.
BTW, congratulates being top 5.
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/24/09 11:29 PM as a reply to Inspector .
Thank You Inspector, unfortunately, I can not change those videos now, since our designs are frozen, and we can not update our projects on this site anymore. But they will remain on youtube, and hopefully the links here will be kept alive for a while even after the contest is over. I will also have the install video on there when I get around to doing so, right now we are planning on finishing the full bath downstairs (it is roughed in already, just need to finish it), and I am planning on putting in a BUM System in that and have it networked to the other bathroom, so users can not cheat the system by going to different ones to get more showers per day, and more, such as voice recognition. I will be keeping the worklogs on my site updated as I work on it some more.

I am still open to suggestions on other ammenities I could implement into the system, some people have suggested:

MP3 Playback capabilities.
Internet Radio.
IPOD dock with controls, with LED mood lights that can go with the beat of the music.
Automatic Aerosol deodorant sprayer.
Teeth brushing timer. (Where the system can guide a child through a timed "Brush, Rinse, Gargle" steps to get them used to brushing properly while saving water.)
and more......

B. Morse
RE: Votes vs. contest project quality
3/24/09 11:44 PM as a reply to txnghia .
I don't think you did anything wrong since from day one the rules for voting were not very
clear and even Terry said to spread the word and make your "dog" vote, but this practice
no doubt generated a sentiment about the fairness of the voting process.

The biggest issue is that the whole thing trashed away the "community" concept and the
perception that the designs were being evaluated/judged/selected by peers, but to
get there you had to have something to show.

Being part of the contest has been a great experience, and I'm happy not just for the
prizes I've got but for the people I've met and the exposure.

Perhaps this experience will be a good lesson learned about how to make something
similar in the future much better.

Just relax and enjoy the trip. Good luck to the top 5 and have a safe trip.

Game's over, stop whining and move on.

Cheers
Jorge